Church Record Sunday - Parochial Registers of Borris Carlow ~ Kirwans and DNA ancestors

       

Apparently a few years ago a cousin contacted me whose ancestor Anna Kirwan Downey was sister to my Great Grandmother Sadie Kirwan Carrow. Sadie and Annie were daughters of Patrick Kirwan and Lizzie Sweeney. The Sweeny/Huey line is well documented in NJ and Leckpatrick Tyrone.

This 3rd cousin turned up on my AncestryDNA 2 months ago and also matches another person who is a 3rd cousin. Our common ancestral segment can be seen below on Chromosome #13. Cousin #3 has no known Kirwans or Sweeneys but her ancestry is known to her and is recent.She and I are the large 51.6 cm and the smaller 8 cM .

Enter Cousins 4 and 5 a week or so ago also at AncestryDNA. Well Cousins 4 and 5 were THERE prior to AncestryDNA's refinement as # 865 and #866...What?? After the refinement they now comfortably rest at #s 11 and 14 and are father and son.    

Chr	Start Location	End Location	Centimorgans (cM)	SNPs
13	18201482	30273581	26.4	1808

  

11	75658173	100268196	22.4	6279
13	17956717	28043323	21.5	3087

                                                   

13	17956717	46594587	51.6	8432
20	41630837	45868746	8.0	1295

Cousins 4 and 5 also descend from Kerwins with the given name of Sylvester which is found in my Kirwans. They have an ancestral area of Carlow. So John McDermot my friendly Irish researcher and I put our heads together, and with some other clues (Patrick's 2nd marriage to a girl from Borris Knockroe) finally, 8 years after the fact have found Patrick's birth.

As he always said in documents his parents were Michael Kirwan and Jane/Jenny Kelly and they married and had 5 ( at least ) children in Borris Carlow between 1843 and 1855. Here is Patrick's birth from Parochial records: 27 Mar 1853-Pat,  Mick Kirwan &  Jane Kelly  with sponsors James Hickey & Maria Kirwan Knockroe.

Wait!! Not only do we not find Sylvester Kirwan/Kerwin in this happy little group but the DNA looks like what I am showing below so does not match with what the other 3 inherited.

Chr	Start Location	End Location	Centimorgans (cM)	SNPs
7	1269965	16882053	27.3	4704

Chr	Start Location	End Location	Centimorgans (cM)	SNPs
3	153404064	196304359	55.9	8697
11	104582818	120309501	19.1	4052

Directly above is Cousin 3 with cousin 5, Cousin 2 with Cousin 5 is right below that  I have a Chromosome # 10 match of 29cM with Cousin #5( Not shown)  ..Who only in the last week had moved up at AncestryDNA from # 865 to  projected Cousin #11 in my Top 25 cousins.

Thankfully, Cousin 2 has now tested at my urging at 23andme and moved his Ancestry results into FTDNA and Gedmatch and cousins 3,4 and 5 are at Gedmatch and FTDNA where these results are from. 

My moral here is that despite BIG matches and common geographic locations we do not always know our DNA ancestors for sure, although we see that we are related. 

Thanks to an informative series of posts this weekend at ISOGG and with some insight from an abstract posted by Debbie Kennett, I am realizing that  I have miles to go before we solve this mystery. The abstract had to do with how many genetic relatives we might have in common and all of these cousins seem to share more than one other family with me and each other. How many? It remains to be seen.

Sunday's Obituary- Virginia, African-American Funeral Programs 1920-2009

                 My Grandson's elusive Tappahannock Virginia family was discovered  here:
                           Virginia, African-American Funeral Programs, 1920-2009
                                                               FamilySearch.org

Wordless Wednesday - Patrick Kirwan,Lizzie Sweeney and/or their parents

Utilizing DNA involves choosing a company that has tools to use. These colors represent DNA that 3 persons and myself received from a common ancestor to me. This Person does not match This Person however. This Person and MYSELF match all of them.

Treasure Trove Thursday - 1821 Irish Census Fragment - Brady in Cavan and Meath

What I am wondering is if I am making myself confused, or did all of the Bradys and Kirwans in my line leave for America from this area. Is it the same area really though? Census fragments only show part  of it apparently.

There are two Sylvester Bradys living in Cavan or Meath at this time and are they the same family.

Sylvester Brady is a policeman and marries a Bridget Hood( or Flood) Jan 1, 1859 in Bohermeen Meath, near Navan where I think this Sylvester dies.

Another Sylvester Brady marries Rose Cook in Mt.Nugent( per the record) or Mountnugent in 1846. This is in Cavan and Meath, or at least the village is in Meath and  not too distant from Butlers Bridge where my rleated Bradys came from.

I also found this  in a public Tree of descendants of the second Sylvester Brady which makes me wonder if this is  my family also:
" The pages that she made are glued into a bible that came across on a sailing ship which left Waterford in 1866 in the possession of Maria (spoken "Mariah") then 14 years old.  According to four originally blank pages in that bible which evidently were meant to record things like births and deaths, etc., and preceding those that my grandmother glued into that bible, was documentation written by the parish priest of Kilbride Parish in Mt. Nugent (because he was the only one that could read or write given the English Penal Laws on the Irish Catholics at that time); it states that seven of the ten children were going to go to America on a sailing ship and only three sons, Timatay, Edward and John, were to stay in Mt. Nugent to tend to their home and parents on the "Tonagh land" in Mt. Nugent. "